Fuck You, I Won’t Do What You Tell Me!
Just to get it out of the way, I’m going to start by telling you that I’m not surprised that the Bishop of Limerick has had to resign over his atrocious mishandling of child sex abuse cases. Nor am I shocked that a parish priest in Kerry has publicly put forward his support for a convicted sex offender, despite not having been in court when evidence against the man was examined. And I’m hardly flabbergasted at the news that a Cork-based Presbyterian minister has condemned an LGBT-friendly carol service as “crossing the line”. This is what I’ve come to expect from Irish men of the cloth - blinkered stupidity and a depressing distance from the sense of justice and morality that we suppose them to be weighted with. So no need to bitterly reply, “What else did you expect?” I expected nothing else. That doesn’t mean this shit isn’t worthy of comment, though.
But dismissive comment. We’re an enlightened people - no, let me stop you there before you snigger and snort. We are. We live in times of Information and Education, where knowledge is prized and available to everyone. Libraries are cheap, internet access is cheap, informed cop-on is cheap. We’ve grown up, have we not? So why the fuck do we need these moral guardians, these purveyors of a fear and loathing badly masked behind snippy concern and quivering shoulders? No one needs to preach to me guff about the true path. My moral compass is just fine. As should yours be.
We’re not children.
I understand that there is a need for belief in a higher power, and that there is comfort in feeling that you are part of a bigger picture, and that personifying an overwhelming sense of there being a greater good can be a positive thing. There is nothing wrong with believing in God. There is nothing wrong with following a set of ancient teachings, so long as you harm no other while you’re getting on with your chosen guff. I also figure that religion is a personal thing. You and I may belong to the same tradition, or the same church, but we won’t necessarily believe the same things. We might take a particular church’s manifesto as a jumping-off point, and mould it as best we can around ourselves. Even when it’s organised, it’s intensely personal. Certainly there are fuck all die-hard Catholics in this country, still gamely clinging to church traditions that were jiggled loose generations ago. You might be a faithful Mass-goer, for example, but you hope your twenty-something daughter is on the pill. You don’t have to follow the Word to the Letter to be a practising member of your congregation.
Just keep it to your fucking selves, yes? No matter what level of martyrdom you think you’re at, you don’t have the right to shovel your personal beliefs down the gullets of your neighbours. And even if you consider yourself Missionary Par Excellence, do you really, really give a fuck if all them tipsy infidels end up in Hell? You’re going to Heaven anyway, aren’t you? Why do you need a whole bunch of strangers in there with you?
Now, the first two examples I gave above, those of Donal Murray and Sean Sheehy, are rather more than simple cases of Holy Busybodies, in that they involve Irish Law. Murray facilitated the sexual abuse of vulnerable children. Sheehy went on national radio to stick two fingers to the Irish justice system by stating that the offence for which his chosen lost lamb was convicted was only “alleged”. Religious figures they may be, but in both instances I don’t think their professions (I can’t use the word vocation; my reason should be obvious) excuse them. Sheehy defends a convicted predator. Murray facilitates evil. They have no authority to speak for a higher Authority, and we all know it. Their moral qualifications aren’t worth the castles in the air they’re based on.
John Faris, of the Trinity Presbyterian Church, is different. He’s doing nothing more than sticking his oar in - he’s more of an annoyance than anything else, a big fuck-off ant at a picnic. The LGBT carol service that he was whinging about wasn’t in his church, or not even in a church of his faith. He just doesn’t like the gays.
“There can be no true joy or peace in actively practising and celebrating a lifestyle which does not please God” he said, and you have to ask what the fuck he bases that on. The Bible? Please. Did God write the Old Testament? Did anyone who actually hung out with Jesus Christ write the New Testament? Is it not likely that whatever oral tradition the legends came from didn’t fall vulnerable to opportunistic langers along the way, who added in bits and pieces from their own fears and prejudices to the Fear n’ Prejudice pot? Doesn’t anyone ever question the validity of the Good Book? Ever tested its sources? If we’re going by the Bible, shouldn’t menstruating women be banned from church activities? Aren’t haircuts sinful? Shouldn’t eveyone wearing mixes of fabrics in their glad rags be excommunicated? How can you pick and choose from the hallucinogenic twaddle in the Old Testament, if not to reinforce your own fears and validate your own narrow-mindedness? It’s fucking codswallop!
Besides, surely it’s an action of extreme arrogance to think that you can speak for this “God” concept? Whether God is an indescribable force, or a bearded dude sitting on a cloud, what gives anyone the right to speak for him/her/it/Alanis?
Come on, to fuck. How dare any ordinary human fucking being have a go at something as important as the very identity of another? LGBT people are LGBT because they made a lifestyle choice, according to Mr. Faris. I despair. Has the man ever met a homosexual, or bisexual, or transsexual person? Has he ever tut-tutted them to their faces, in their homes, surrounded by their families, and asked them to give up their “lifestyles” as you’d ask a child to put down a scruffy toy? In his heart of hearts, as a moral crusader, can he really believe that ordinary, good people are displeasing to some vague deity?
He probably can. What a muppet.
Yet we listen, for some reason. We listen to these pontificating simpletons as if their words resonate and as if they know more than the rest of us. And they don’t, y’know. They really don’t. Our laws are there to protect us against one another, our friends and families are there to protect us from ourselves. Of course you’ll get the odd broken soul who has no more a moral compass than a tumbleweed in an empty ceann; that’ll happen. But that doesn’t mean we have a need for prophets and ethics salesmen; we should be able to come up with our rights and wrongs all by ourselves.
We should know that in Ireland. Of all fucking places, we should know that in Ireland. Just because someone statuesque says he speaks for Heaven and he’s got the guidebook, doesn’t mean he’s any more or less than the average gobshite trundling their way from cradle to grave.
As the recent actions of Donal Murray, Sean Sheehy, and John Faris should illustrate.
I don’t need people like that to make my decisions for me. It confounds me that anyone would; we’ve come a long way, baby …
But we’re not there yet.
Old Knudsen is spiritual not religious and is as much a God as everyone else is.
A society does need laws because we are a society otherwise let everyone have guns and do what they like, they’ll follow some leader no matter what cos some are leaders and some are followers.
Everyone thinks they are right well everyone should have an opinion but be sensible and open to change it. The ones that don’t have opinions (there are many look at some blogs and Twitter)may feel the need to accept someone elses. Like I said its tribes.
How many people just don’t bother to learn? They hold themselves back and blame others or are just happy to watch X-factor and go on holiday once a year.
There is a higher power, I’m fudged if I know its name gender or plan but it is there and many religious leaders are too stuck in the mundane of dogma and condemning others they miss the point.
Well written, Sweary. We have come a long way… but I despair sometimes about how little progress we humans make. Mired in our own personal prejudices and intolerant of others’ foibles. Columbo.
Well yes, but the good thing is that while we are not there yet, we are well on the way.
But I will add this, on the GLBT issue. I feel much the same way as with religion. I really do not care. I just would rather you kept it to yourself for I do not see that they are different from you or me. So why not have the Carol singing as just that. Unless that is -and I suspect it is- you want to put a stick in the anthill. And anyway, these days I have the feeling it’s ‘the only gay in the village’ type of scenario.
I was under the impression that I made you ALL in MY image and that I sent MY only SON down there to DIE for all YOUR SINS…
Oh well back to the drawing BOARD…
2nd coming soon…
Well, Vince, there are LGBT Christians out there. I don’t know why, because I’d personally feel that a religion that called me “displeasing to God” isn’t worth my time or devotion, but fact remains that there are LGBT Christians out there who are naturally distanced from their own faith, something that at this time of year can be quite painful. In an effort to include the LGBT community at Christmas, a time that is supposedly all about love and inclusion and forgiveness, St. Anne’s in Shandon holds an LGBT-friendly carol service. I think it’s a step in the right direction and a wonderful gesture. And then you have a minister from another church entirely commenting on how it’s displeasing to God. And you say that the LGBT community are upsetting the anthill? C’mon, young lad.
Knudders, I know that some people are followers, not leaders, but surely that’s just down to laziness? Not being able to figure out for yourself what’s right and what’s wrong … I mean, isn’t that how we define adulthood?
Thanks, Columbo. We have come a long way, but then you witness something that makes you scratch your head in amazement. I suppose in a way that’s evidence of our coming a long way; that attitudes like that surprise us?
If the bishops aren’t subjected to a criminal investigation for covering-up and facilitating paedophilia (by shunting offenders about, callously providing them with fresh opportunities and victims), then I’ll conclude Ireland has progressed very little.
I’m not calling for a witch hunt, but the allegations are of a criminal nature. How do you resign from that? If I shoot my boss, can I resign my position to circumvent a murder trial? Echoing Sweary, it is inconsequential to me whether or not these guys resign.
As Columbo said, I despair. Dramatically less important than the events cited in Sweary’s post, but I even found myself depressed when Ryan Tubridy was openly rude to Richard Dawkins in one of his first shows as host of The Late Late Show. I can’t stand Tubridy anyway, but that’s neither here nor there.
In 2009, that a young Irish chat show presenter felt compelled to show open hostility to an atheist, to (presumably) pander to conservative Christian Ireland, depressed me. Especially in the context that Dawkins was there to promote a book on evolutionary biology.
Dawkins politely made clear at the very beginning that ‘The God Delusion’ was his last book, and his latest book had nothing to do with religion. Still, Tubridy ambushed him, eager to give a prominent atheist a kicking to keep the bible-bashers on side. Depressing.
Given that the Church, any of them are designed to be inclusive. At least in theory. How the heck can it be progressive that there is a service designed for any one group.
If the CoI at Shandon called for a Carol Service where the Bantu People of the former Transkei sang, it would be called exactly what it is, Apartheid.
If the bishops aren’t subjected to a criminal investigation for covering-up and facilitating paedophilia (by shunting offenders about, callously providing them with fresh opportunities and victims), then I’ll conclude Ireland has progressed very little.
On one level I agree with you, Flann. But on another, the fact that the people of Ireland are debating this, or angrily calling for it, is surely a sign that we’ve come forward from the meek flock that thought members of the clergy infallible?
Ryan Tubridy, being a member of the Andrews clan, is someone I expect very little from. He has the integrity of a stampeding warthog.
Jesus, Vincent, it was an LGBT-friendly service. They don’t turn away straight people at the door. The intent is to actively encourage LGBT people to take part in, and feel part of, the Christmas celebrations.
Using that logic, all children’s masses would be disallowed on grounds of discrimination.
That is a post that calls for an intelligent, well-thought response. So hear you go Sweary…
“Yay!!!!”
For I couldn’t have put that better myself.
Thought I was exhausted with indignation and anger and frustration till I read your good post Sweary. And, is this the very first post which inspired the Irish Begrudger to make a serious response? Have you mutilated Flann’s funny bits with a Bishop’s crosier? Oh god, how is it that when the church should be caved and dead in the grave from recent and repeating revelations, how is it that he appears to be seeping back into our consciousness like a raping river which has flooded its banks. The church in Ireland = the non-receding rapist river. Build up your flood defence and get going with them sand bags.
Vincent’s not a racist, but…
This raised an eyebrow: “I understand that there is a need for belief in a higher power”. Is that poor phrasing or do you really believe that applies across the board?
Not quite the same thing in fairness.
Is there a need for Omey to mount a defence ?.
It’s an intentionally broad statement, emordino. In many cases, people like to believe that there’s something out there bigger than themselves. I guess I’m trying to accept that this is human nature, so I shouldn’t harp too loudly about the futility of the whole “life” thing. It’s a bit wet of me, I’ll admit. Look at me and my attempt at tact!
Vince, forgive my thickosity, but who/what’s Omey? Maybe I have brain freeze, but all I can think of is Omar of The Wire.
dood
Never mind the LGBT’s, what about just plain old women in the Church or any church? I’ve never understood that one. If the women would quit showing up, obeying, and giving money, the whole Ponzi scheme would quickly fall apart.
We mainly have to deal with the incredibly uneducated prod and pseudo-prod (too dumb to even know they’re prods since they don’t know any history at all) fuckwits here in God’s country, who go around parading with signs like “God didn’t make Adam and Steve!” I asked one, one time, if God didn’t make them, who the fuck did? No coherent answer from Mr. Fuckwit, but then again I wasn’t expecting a logical response.
Catholic priests not exactly being thick on the ground here in the States, they tend to hold their tongues a bit more, as daily they watch their educated followers (and money) decamp to the Church of It’smydayoffandI’llbefuckedifIspenditatmass and the not-so-educated ones decamp to the Pentecostals and Jehovah’s Witlesses. I don’t understand why there has not been a massive split between the mainstream Catholic Church and the American Catholic Church, a la the whole Anglican thing going on.
And don’t even get me started on the Presbyterians. I have yet to come to an understanding of how they can believe that a person’s life is predestined and judged by God beforehand, and yet you are still supposed to sit through a church service every week no matter. I suppose it’s a bit much to expect logic and reason from a bunch of people selling shares in a fairy tale, but still.
Lisa, I have never left you with a one word, nothingness, ever ever ever.